Pharrryngula::IDEA clubs: now with extra sneakiness and ignorance!

Sunday, January 08, 2006

IDEA clubs: now with extra sneakiness and ignorance!

PZ Myers • 32 Comments (last page)

You might recall that th' IDEA clubs required that their leaders be Christian (linked t' Google cache).

1) Havin' an interest in intelligent design and creation - evolution issues, and a willingness t' learn more.

2) Agreein' with and bein' willin' t' uphold th' IDEA Center's mission statement.

3) Havin' a desire and commitment t' usin' these issues t' educate and outreach t' yer lubber students, campus, or community.

4) We also require that club leaders be Christians as th' IDEA Center Leadership believes, fer religious reasons unrelated t' intelligent design theory, that th' identity o' th' designer is th' God o' th' Bible. It is definitely not necessary t' "be an expert" t' start and run a successful a club. It is helpful t' be familiar with th' basics o' intelligent design theory, but if ye're not, that's where th' IDEA Center hopes t' step in and help educate ye so ye can in turn educate others. Where e'er ye feel like ye might need help--whether its science, leadership skills, or practical tips fer runnin' th' club--that's where th' IDEA Center wants t' step in an help ye. We try t' help give any club founder all th' tools they might need t' start and run a succesful club and help promote a better understandin' o' th' creation - evolution issue at their schools.

Nay more! The rules have been changed.

1) Havin' an interest in intelligent design and creation - evolution issues, and a willingness t' learn more.

2) Agreein' with and bein' willin' t' uphold th' IDEA Center's mission statement.

3) Havin' a desire and commitment t' usin' these issues t' educate and outreach t' yer lubber students, campus, or community. Walk the plank!

4) IDEA Club leaders must advocate th' scientific theory o' intelligent design in th' fields o' biology and physics/cosmology. And hoist the mainsail!

5) There are no requirements regardin' th' religious beliefs o' IDEA Club leaders or founders.

So now, instead o' requirin' Christianity, they require a) that one be an advocate o' th' "scientific theory o' intelligent design" and b) that one agree with th' IDEA center's mission statement. That's interestin'; there is no scientific theory o' intelligent design. There is no science behind it, and it doesn't qualify as a theory—even callin' it a hypothesis is o'er-generous, since we typically expect even hypotheses t' have some foundation in evidence and observation. That's strike one, pass the grog! What about that mission statement?

We believe that in th' investigation o' intelligent design th' identity o' th' designer is completely separate from th' scientific theory o' intelligent design, since a scientific theory cannot specify th' identity o' th' designer based upon th' empirical data or th' scientific method alone, and is not dependent upon religious premises; nonetheless, we consider it reasonable t' conclude that th' designer may be identified as th' God o' th' Bible, while recognizin' that others may identify th' designer in a different way.

How cunnin', I'll warrant ye! They cut out th' blatant religious requirement and buried it more subtly in th' mission statement—if ye dern't think it reasonable t' identify th' designer as th' God o' th' Bible, ye aren't th' kind o' person they want runnin' their clubs. I guess th' Raelians are goin' t' be disappointed.

Intelligent Design creationists do seem fond o' sneakin' their beliefs in through th' back door, dern't they?

It's also interestin' how much they emphasize that absolutely no expertise is required t' be a leader in th' IDEA clubs, and dinna spare the whip! That's their clientele: people who know absolutely nothin' about science, but are willin' and eager t' repudiate it.

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Trackback url: http://tangledbank.net/index/trackback/3689/

Comments:

{if FALSE} Trackback: IDEA clubs: now with extra sneakiness and ignorance! Tracked on: () at {trackback_date format="%Y %m %d %H:%i:%s"} {/if} {if TRUE} {if FALSE} {/if} #56950: — 01/08 at 01:05 PM {/if}
{if FALSE} {/if} {if TRUE} How interestin'. Is that Google cache permanent, by Davy Jones' locker? Is someone preservin' copies o' their auld requirements? It could come up in a future discussion (or court case.)

BTW, I will take credit fer th' tip. {/if}

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{if FALSE} Trackback: IDEA clubs: now with extra sneakiness and ignorance! Tracked on: () at {trackback_date format="%Y %m %d %H:%i:%s"} {/if} {if TRUE} {if FALSE} {/if} #56954: Andy — 01/08 at 01:27 PM {/if}
{if FALSE} {/if} {if TRUE} The wayback contraption at archive.org doesn't have anythin' because o' ideacenter.org's robots.txt, which only lists th' internet archiver in th' followin' 5 lines:

User-agent: ia_archiver
Disallow: /

User-agent: ia_archiver/1.6
Disallow: /

So it seems they explictly dern't want any caches/archives o' their content, but arn't smart enough t' limit other robots/web archivers. One could read this as that they dern't have very much confidence in their content. {/if}

{if FALSE} {/if} {if signature} {/if}

{if FALSE} Trackback: IDEA clubs: now with extra sneakiness and ignorance! Tracked on: () at {trackback_date format="%Y %m %d %H:%i:%s"} {/if} {if TRUE} {if FALSE} {/if} #56957: Les Lane — 01/08 at 02:02 PM {/if}
{if FALSE} {/if} {if TRUE} Interest in science is not required. Perhaps we should praise them fer not (overtly) requirin' hostility t' science. {/if}

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The IDEA Center provides all IDEA Club Chapters with 2' x 4' high quality vinyl "IDEA Club sign."

oh, heck, that's enough o' a reason t' sell me soul t' Satan and anyone else who gets in th' way: i want one o' dose signs!!

The wayback contraption at archive.org doesn't have anythin' because o' ideacenter.org's robots.txt, which only lists th' internet archiver in th' followin' 5 lines ...

yeah, robots.txt is a voluntary thin' public spiders follows. alas, archive.org is very much public so can't help but follow them. however, many private spiderin' firms simply disregard these, particularly those seekin' data on competitors. {/if}

{if FALSE} {/if} {if ""} {/if}

{if FALSE} Trackback: IDEA clubs: now with extra sneakiness and ignorance! Tracked on: () at {trackback_date format="%Y %m %d %H:%i:%s"} {/if} {if TRUE} {if FALSE} {/if} #56959: ekzept — 01/08 at 02:36 PM {/if}
{if FALSE} {/if} {if TRUE} BTW, th' other sneaky thin' th' creationist alchemists do is fail t' public (whether electronically or usin' dead trees) th' proceedin's o' conferences, like th' 2004 one, me beauty. ye need t' order an audio recordin' o' th' conference.

so, like th' failure t' allow archivin' o' their Web sites, these critters "have a lot o' good science in th' pipeline" that's not only not available now, but ne'er will be. {/if}

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{if FALSE} Trackback: IDEA clubs: now with extra sneakiness and ignorance! Tracked on: () at {trackback_date format="%Y %m %d %H:%i:%s"} {/if} {if TRUE} {if FALSE} {/if} #56960: kutsuwamushi — 01/08 at 03:00 PM {/if}
{if FALSE} {/if} {if TRUE} I wonder what would happen if a Hindu tried t' start a club, by Davy Jones' locker. It's obvious that they want their club members t' be Christian, but now that 'tis not required by their rules ... {/if}

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{if FALSE} Trackback: IDEA clubs: now with extra sneakiness and ignorance! Tracked on: () at {trackback_date format="%Y %m %d %H:%i:%s"} {/if} {if TRUE} {if FALSE} {/if} #56961: — 01/08 at 03:02 PM {/if}
{if FALSE} {/if} {if TRUE} ID isn't a hypothesis either. A hypothesis must be testable. ID is just an article o' faith. {/if}

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{if FALSE} Trackback: IDEA clubs: now with extra sneakiness and ignorance! Tracked on: () at {trackback_date format="%Y %m %d %H:%i:%s"} {/if} {if TRUE} {if FALSE} {/if} #56962: — 01/08 at 03:10 PM {/if}
{if FALSE} {/if} {if TRUE} I find th' idea o' hittin' certain ID proponents with idea clubs, repeatedly, t' be rather appealin'. {/if}

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{if FALSE} Trackback: IDEA clubs: now with extra sneakiness and ignorance! Tracked on: () at {trackback_date format="%Y %m %d %H:%i:%s"} {/if} {if TRUE} {if FALSE} {/if} #56965: — 01/08 at 03:51 PM {/if}
{if FALSE} {/if} {if TRUE} I guess Jews, and maybe Muslims, can lead IDEA clubs now. Aarrr, with a chest full of booty! They must be so happy.

Of course that a person would have t' Xian t' conclude that th' designer were bein' th' God o' th' Bible were bein' absurd, with Jewish IDists (few, but not zero) easily fittin' that description. So it looks like they're at least a bit more logical in their statement now (that Schaeffer (sp?) lubber could be an IDEA leader now, were he a student). But well, what were they supposed t' do, disavow their purpose and th' only reason anyone has t' be pro-ID?

Obviously th' requirements do and must limit th' leadership, explicitly or otherwise. Fire the cannons! If theological commitment (however vague) were not required, science might displace belief. And then how long would th' club last?

Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/b8ykm {/if}

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{if FALSE} Trackback: IDEA clubs: now with extra sneakiness and ignorance! Tracked on: () at {trackback_date format="%Y %m %d %H:%i:%s"} {/if} {if TRUE} {if FALSE} {/if} #56969: The Inoculated Mind — 01/08 at 04:45 PM {/if}
{if FALSE} {/if} {if TRUE} I've been correspondin' with th' leader o' th' Cornell chapter, followin' their press release declarin' that ID is testable and is a valid scientific theory. I pressed fer an explanation, and they have not yet explained how it qualifies as both o' those.

I'm now askin' their Prez. if they were aware o' this requirement when they became prez.

Does anyone know when th' IDEA center changed these rules?

Karl {/if}

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{if FALSE} Trackback: IDEA clubs: now with extra sneakiness and ignorance! Tracked on: () at {trackback_date format="%Y %m %d %H:%i:%s"} {/if} {if TRUE} {if FALSE} {/if} #56971: — 01/08 at 05:07 PM {/if}
{if FALSE} {/if} {if TRUE} Somebody should really start one o' these clubs with th' premise that th' FSM is th' "designer." {/if}

{if FALSE} {/if} {if signature} {/if}

{if FALSE} Trackback: IDEA clubs: now with extra sneakiness and ignorance! Tracked on: () at {trackback_date format="%Y %m %d %H:%i:%s"} {/if} {if TRUE} {if FALSE} {/if} #56972: ekzept — 01/08 at 05:21 PM {/if}
{if FALSE} {/if} {if TRUE} i think i've been watchin' too much Deep Space Nine and Bukaroo Bonzai recently. when IDers speak o' gods and deities bein' Their Designer, i just see communities o' intelligent bein's and civilizations existin' at th' subatomic level, powered by "muon energy", controllin' everythin' on th' macroscopic fer their own, nefarious ends. talk about little nissen, Loki gone wild!

hey, it ain't testable either.

so there! {/if}

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Don't be ashamed if ye dern't feel like an expert in science or other subjects if ye want t' start a club, pass the grog! All ye need is th' desire t' see people learn about intelligent design, and th' IDEA Center is here t' help ye.

That explains all. {/if}

{if FALSE} {/if} {if "----- [i]"As with all of ID, the important thing is first to have the concept. Production can then f"}

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"As with all of ID, the important thing is first to have the concept. Production can then follow as a matter of course.” -Dembski

{/if}

They cut out th' blatant religious requirement and buried it more subtly in th' mission statement

But still not sneaky enough t' get it past yer elite scientific research skills o' actually lookin' at all th' evidence, PZ. They must be aimin' it at th' enthusiastically non-expert, or those who are already committed t' th' ID lie. {/if}

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{if FALSE} Trackback: IDEA clubs: now with extra sneakiness and ignorance! Tracked on: () at {trackback_date format="%Y %m %d %H:%i:%s"} {/if} {if TRUE} {if TRUE}

{/if} #56983: PZ Myers — 01/08 at 06:44 PM {/if}
{if FALSE} {/if} {if TRUE} Credit where credit is due -- me source dug that up.

It's not just me, th' IDists are rousin' a whole army o' people who know how t' think critically and research basic claims. {/if}

{if FALSE} {/if} {if "[color=blue]PZ Myers Division of Science and Math University of "}

PZ Myers
Division of Science and Math
University of Minnesota, Morris

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{if FALSE} Trackback: IDEA clubs: now with extra sneakiness and ignorance! Tracked on: () at {trackback_date format="%Y %m %d %H:%i:%s"} {/if} {if TRUE} {if FALSE} {/if} #56986: — 01/08 at 07:43 PM {/if}
{if FALSE} {/if} {if TRUE} Erm... You've just linked back t' this same blog entry. Ahoy! And swab the deck! It's a bit circular t' refer t' yourself as yer source ... borderin' on th' god-like even. {/if}

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{if FALSE} Trackback: IDEA clubs: now with extra sneakiness and ignorance! Tracked on: () at {trackback_date format="%Y %m %d %H:%i:%s"} {/if} {if TRUE} {if TRUE}

{/if} #56988: PZ Myers — 01/08 at 07:49 PM {/if}
{if FALSE} {/if} {if TRUE} It's a link t' Ivy Privy's comment. {/if}

{if FALSE} {/if} {if "[color=blue]PZ Myers Division of Science and Math University of "}

PZ Myers
Division of Science and Math
University of Minnesota, Morris

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{if FALSE} Trackback: IDEA clubs: now with extra sneakiness and ignorance! Tracked on: () at {trackback_date format="%Y %m %d %H:%i:%s"} {/if} {if TRUE} {if FALSE} {/if} #56992: — 01/08 at 08:11 PM {/if}
{if FALSE} {/if} {if TRUE} Ah. Interestingly that weren't showin' in IE's URL display.

PS Don't tell me t' use FireFox instead. It were bein' slow loadin' and then seemed t' be hoggin' all th' resources and even failin' t' unload itself properly on closin'. Ahoy! So I've had t' go back t' IE and stop lookin' at PT altogether - th' newly designed PC-crashin' look o' which had prompted me trial o' FireFox in th' first place. {/if}

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4) IDEA Club leaders must advocate th' scientific theory o' intelligent design in th' fields o' biology and physics/cosmology

Did anyone else notice how they snuck in physics/cosmology, avast? Cosmology I can savvy, but physics?
Seriously, F = (m * a) ^D
Outside o' big bang stuff, are there any ID physicists? {/if}

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Did anyone else notice how they snuck in physics/cosmology? Cosmology I can savvy, but physics?
Seriously, F = (m * a) ^D
Outside o' big bang stuff, are there any ID physicists?

Yeah, if anythin', ID is a mental disorder that is much more prevalent among cosmologists that take th' anthropic principle *much* too seriously. Fire the cannons, me beauty! They probably put in "physicists" just because cosmologists have long had lousy reputation fer accuracy, ye scurvey dog. (less so, now)

But 'tis interestin' t' consider that even fer "ID" cosmology, th' intervention _only_ occurs at t=0; tweekin' th' electron/proton mass ratio, fer example. After which, th' universe just has t' "evolve" on its own, me beauty.

Unlike ID biology, which apparantly requires constant pokin' and proddin'. I guess that means that biology is just much, much harder fer a poor overworked diety t' suss out 13 billion years in advance. {/if}

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{if FALSE} Trackback: IDEA clubs: now with extra sneakiness and ignorance! Tracked on: () at {trackback_date format="%Y %m %d %H:%i:%s"} {/if} {if TRUE} {if FALSE} {/if} #57004: Alon Levy — 01/08 at 11:17 PM {/if}
{if FALSE} {/if} {if TRUE} we consider it reasonable t' conclude that th' designer may be identified as th' God o' th' Bible, while recognizin' that others may identify th' designer in a different way.

Judgin' by all th' physical laws all gods contradict, I'd say that P(ID is correct) >> P(God exists | ID is correct). {/if}

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{if FALSE} Trackback: IDEA clubs: now with extra sneakiness and ignorance! Tracked on: () at {trackback_date format="%Y %m %d %H:%i:%s"} {/if} {if TRUE} {if FALSE} {/if} #57006: — 01/09 at 12:03 AM {/if}
{if FALSE} {/if} {if TRUE} Playin' Diety's Advocate here: Many universities require that recognized campus clubs have non-discrimination policies wrt membership, and have t' include such in their bylaws t' be approved, by Davy Jones' locker. This change could be a response t' that if they've had trouble formin' chapters in such places.

But that doesn't necessarily excuse buryin' th' religious nature o' th' club, with a chest full of booty. Other religious groups on such campuses get along just fine. {/if}

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a scientific theory cannot specify th' identity o' th' designer based upon th' empirical data or th' scientific method alone

Nay, really? You can't just check th' label? The holy book isn't much use either? So much fer th' first commandment.

Can they actually argue that th' same science that proves that th' world is designed requires that th' designer cannot be identified?

Nay identifiable designer ... let's call it evolution. {/if}

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Does anyone know when th' IDEA center changed these rules?

The new rules fer founders/leaders o' local clubs page says (C) 2006 at th' bottom. That might be clue that 'tis recent.

Also, I met Hannah Maxson, president o' th' Cornell IDEA Club at an off-campus event Friday evenin'. The winsome lass were bein' asked point blank about th' auld religious requirement. Shiver me timbers, to be sure! The winsome lass dodged, she weaved, she waffled, but she would not give a direct answer. The winsome lass kept repeatin', "ask about it on Monday", which makes sense if she knew th' rule were bein' in process o' bein' changed (and were bein' integrity-challenged).

I can verify that th' auld rules were still in place as o' November 29, 2005. {/if}

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