#57026: greensmile — 01/09  at  08:56 AM
Niether the kindly Minister nor his enlightened fearless leader have anything resembling faith. The minister trusts people in high places though perhaps no higher than the newly lowered presidency. "Faith based" my ass, a tax dodge for his friends...the president is born again and the rest of us get shorn again.

I know what a faith based community action looks like and it really does good for donors' and recipients but takes no government money.

#57030: paperwight — 01/09  at  09:15 AM
We will bury you.

It probably sounds better in the original Russian.

#57036: Kristine Harley — 01/09  at  09:56 AM
Wow. Any word on whether the church has burned a thousand crosses and strung up a thousand meddlin' unbelievers? Yeah, I wouldn't call the Rev. Lusk an "Uncle Tom," either. He's crossed right over into the Ku Klux Klan. An ugly side of mass movements that lift up the oppressed is that the oppressed often take on the methods of their former oppressors.

#57041: — 01/09  at  10:07 AM
Off topic for this thread, but PZ gets a mention here:

Moreover, Biology professor P.Z. Myers at the University of Minnesota recently wrote that the only appropriate response to anyone supporting intelligent design or questioning the modern theory of evolution should be "some form of righteous fury, much butt-kicking, and public firing and humiliation".

She also mentions (read: glosses over) the Bryan Leonard affair at Ohio State:

Of similar concern was the campaign against Ohio University graduate student Bryan Leonard which occurred three days before his dissertation defence was to take place. Darwinist professors accused Mr Leonard of "unethical human-subject experimentation" simply because he educated his students on the scientific criticisms of evolutionary theory.

But, as Richard Hoppe pointed out at the 'thumb, there was a lot more to it than that. Leonard's dissertation committee did not meet the requirements of Ohio State's College of Education.

#57054: Adam Ierymenko — 01/09  at  11:32 AM
My favorite retort to these guys is:

"Go back to Iran!"

This really confuses them because:

1) It pushes the patriotism button, which only wingnuts are allowed to push.
2) It invokes cold war'ish paranoia *against them*.

#57056: BronzeDog — 01/09  at  11:38 AM

We will bury you.

What's that 'y' doing there? It should be an 'n'.

#57072: Linkmeister — 01/09  at  01:00 PM
So the Hollywood dialogue should be updated?

"He's sleeping with (the loaves and) the fishes."

#57082: — 01/09  at  02:35 PM
Just repeating myself here ...

BUT, this seems to confirm numbers 2, 3 & 5 doesn't it?

Unreasoning belief, and the believers.

The believers, in all the monotheistic religions, and even that religion-without-a-god, communism, seem to have common characteristics, as do those religions.
All seem to suggest that religion is a very bad idea, and that religions, and especially their believers, will do certain unpleasant things.
In order to combat this pernicious mind-rot, I’m proposing some falsifiable tests for religions, and some suggestions as to what rational people should do about it.

A set of testable Propositions

1. No “god” can be detected - OR - God is not detectable
2. All religions are blackmail, and are based on fear and superstition.
3.All religions have been made by men.
4.Prayer has no effect on third parties.
5.All religions kill, or enslave, or torture.

#57092: — 01/09  at  03:58 PM

#57041: Jason Spaceman — 01/09 at 10:07 AM

The link from the above post, The Epoch Times, is the Falun Gong mouthpeice. Its quite interesting, constrasting the US/Christian approach, they have a raelian-type appreciation for intelligent design (little green men etc)

#57104: — 01/09  at  05:09 PM
Quoted form the article "Sen. Rick Santorum (R-Pa.) said the elevation of Alito to the top court is crucial because "extremely liberal justices [are] destroying traditional morality." "

Considering the traditional morality includes racism, anti-semitism, murdering women who want freedom of choice and blaming rape victims for the crime of rape you need more liberal justices, not less.

#57118: BronzeDog — 01/09  at  07:41 PM
I think you forgot traditional marriage. You know, marrying for monetary, political, and reproductive purposes, instead of the pot-headed pipe dream of "love."

Trackback: Why I Own Firearms #3041 Tracked on: StealthBadger.net (69.17.65.146) at 2006 01 09 21:08:47
Because people say absolutely unnecessary shit like this: "My friends, don't fool with the church because the church has buried a million critics. And those the church has not buried, the church has made funeral arrangement for." You know what...

#57122: Rich — 01/09  at  09:13 PM
The URL refers to where I placed pictures of the demonstration outside the event.

#57125: — 01/09  at  09:40 PM
Regarding Just Us Sunday, people like the good reverend Lusk get hung up on (or distracted by) the issue of abortion and gays, nativity creches in the public square and prayer in school which are cynical diversions. The real issue with Alito and Roberts is their judicial philosophy with respect to broadening presidential authority, particularly Bush's presidential authority. But does Lusk's congregation even know this? Could they even discuss the issue? The REAL powers that be in the G.O.P don't give a shit about a bunch of religious kooks and jigaboos jumpin' and hollerin' "hallelujah" in the pews. But they pretend they do and kick in a cool million too to buy the support of the likes of Lusk. Thinking of these negroes I am reminded that the history of the black man in America is filled with pathetic tales of betrayal, ignorance, self-loathing and corrupting self-interest by negroes like these supporting those that hate them in their hearts.

#57126: — 01/09  at  09:44 PM
The Holy Father wants to make you an offer you cannot refuse....

#57144: Adam Ierymenko — 01/10  at  12:09 AM

The believers, in all the monotheistic religions, and even that religion-without-a-god, communism, seem to have common characteristics, as do those religions.

All of these cults/religions/movements have a pyramid shaped social structure. I think that you see a couple different personality types / ways of thinking depending on what level you are in the pyramid.

The leaders tend to be people with the authoritarian personality type. They get off on second-hand approval, enjoy telling people what to do, etc.

The followers tend to be people who are honest and normal and who belong/believe for a variety of reasons. Some are "joiner" types who feel a need to belong, while others are convinced by intellectual arguments or more often appeals to emotion.

Look at any smaller cult, and you see the same thing in microcosm.

My opinion is this:

The leaders are beyond help. The worst of them are conscious con artists, sociopaths, etc. The more honest of them are delusional or are misguided idealists. I wouldn't bet on any of them ever changing their minds. The higher they get in the pyramid, the more invested they become and the less likely they become to change their minds. About the only thing we can do is wait for them to die.

It's the followers who are reachable.

I personally think that targeting specific movements such as religiouss, communism, etc. is misguided-- the real goal should be to decrease the overall population of followers. If you try to stamp out, say, Christianity, the followers will just flock elsewhere. In many cases, they flock to things that are worse. Christianity is nowhere even close to the dumbest or most dangerous thing a person could follow.

There are a few interlocking things, IMHO, that need to be done:

1) The social alienation problem needs to be addressed. Either we need to create more excuses for people to get together and form communities, or we need to work to overcome the need that people feel to *have* an excuse to get together and form communities.

2) There need to be secular substitutes for the role that religions play in family life. The smug dislike of (or even hostility to) family life shown by some secularists is extremely counterproductive and wrongheaded. Seriously... google the word 'family' and you get nothing but fundamentalist web sites. Reproduction is the central activity of all living things. Ignoring it is beyond ridiculous.

3) People need to be taught how to think and reason independently.

I think we're doing pretty well at trying to accomplish #3. #1 has progressed a bit, but needs a lot of work. #2 is utterly ignored.

#57157: — 01/10  at  03:09 AM
Thank you for that last post.

However, I suggest that "All religions are balckmail" is a good meme to set running .......

Remember that a cult is just a small religion, and a religion is just a big cult .....

Scientific test....
What do the religions do?
What are their operating characteristics?
How are they structured?

See propositions originally posted ......

#57703: — 02/03  at  07:39 PM
we need a good sex scandal to discredit some of these people--somebody pray for one!!!!