PZ Myers. 2005 Dec 31. Perfidious Canada. <http://pharyngula.org/index/weblog/perfidious_canada/>. Accessed 2006 Feb 13.

Posted on M00o93H7pQ09L8X1t49cHY01Z5j4TT91fGfr on Saturday, December 31, 2005

Perfidious Canada

I'm not at all surprised that the US has plans to invade Canada (plans which, I hope, will never be implemented), but it's startling to find out there is a Canadian plan to invade the US.

The Canadian plan was developed by the country's director of military operations and intelligence, a World War I hero named James Sutherland "Buster" Brown. Apparently Buster believed that the best defense was a good offense: His "Defence Scheme No. 1" called for Canadian soldiers to invade the United States, charging toward Albany, Minneapolis, Seattle and Great Falls, Mont., at the first signs of a possible U.S. invasion.

Minneapolis?

I'm not worried. If the Canadians show up here, I'd smile, wave, and offer 'em a beer. They'd take one sip and turn around and go home.

(via Lawyers, Guns, and Money)

Posted by PZ Myers on 12/31 at 05:24 PM
Politics • Weirdness • 0 Trackbacks • Other weblogs • Permalink
  1. They might well be welcomed with rose petals as liberators. At least as good a chance of that as...well...ah that's last year's news. Happy New Year Paul.
    #: Posted by Carl Buell (OGeorge)  on  12/31  at  05:00 PM
  2. Maybe we'll burn down the White House . . . again.
    #: Posted by wolfangel  on  12/31  at  05:06 PM
  3. Brag, brag, brag.

    This time, could you also grab the current occupant and drag him off in irons?
    #: Posted by PZ Myers  on  12/31  at  05:16 PM
  4. Happy New Year everyone!
    #: Posted by coturnix  on  12/31  at  05:34 PM
  5. I trust everyone has listened to:

    <http://www.deadtroll.com/index2.html?/dvd/1812.html~content>

    grin

    Ian
    #: Posted by Ian Robinson  on  12/31  at  05:35 PM
  6. Perfidious Canada

    BWAHAHAHA!

    We really need to secure our borders; otherwise we'll be overrun by foreigners who are "oot and aboot".

    Damn foreigners.


    .
    #: Posted by spork_incident  on  12/31  at  06:12 PM
  7. Drag off the current occupant? We don't want him. Couldn't we just offer him exile in Libya or some place?
    #: Posted by Clare  on  12/31  at  06:14 PM
  8. All they have to do is threaten to cut off the supply of prescription drugs to the old folks, and they'll win without a shot fired.
    #: Posted by  on  12/31  at  06:15 PM
  9. There is still time to get on board for Canadian World Domination...

    http://cwd.ptbcanadian.com/

    Happy New Year, everyone.
    #: Posted by  on  12/31  at  06:15 PM
  10. Every military has planning offices that mostly function as a sort of WPA project for staff officers. Before World War I, the Kaiser, irritated over some minor colonial dispute, directed his general staff to prepare plans for war against the United States even though such a conflict would have been about as practical as a struggle between Paraquay and Tibet. The plan, which assumed, among other things, that the British would allow the German fleet to steam across the Atlantic unmolested, featured an invasion of Long Island by an army that would be outnumbered even by the small American standing army of that era. The Duchy of Grand Fenwick had better prospects.

    Actually, these absurd exercises are no stupider than the scenarios that used to be dreamed up by Herman Kahn and other military philosophers during the Cold War.
    #: Posted by Jim Harrison  on  12/31  at  06:36 PM
  11. Holy Spagetti! I was just making stuff up. I didn't realize it had any basis in reality.
    #: Posted by mikez  on  12/31  at  06:44 PM
  12. A lot of Buffalonians (including a weekly paper) have only semi-jokingly asked for Canada to annex us. Everybody in Buffalo already drinks Molsen and Labatts anyway.
    #: Posted by  on  12/31  at  06:55 PM
  13. And if we invade Canada and win, can we force 'em to take Detroit?
    #: Posted by  on  12/31  at  07:22 PM
  14. Actually, my grandfather was sent down as part of an advance party in the early 1920s. He and many others have stayed and raised families here, but we are all pledged to loyalty to the mother country

    Every fall, hundreds of scouting parties fan out across the southwestern US in their RVs. Some believe they are simply enjoying the sun, but their real purpose is to become familiar with the culture of Mexico so they can wend their way further south.

    Next stop, Costa Rica.
    #: Posted by  on  12/31  at  07:27 PM
  15. We really need to secure our borders; otherwise we'll be overrun by foreigners who are "oot and aboot".

    Damn foreigners.


    Boy, you Americans really are bad at geography. Relax; you have nothing to fear from the Scots. Their oppressive overlords (formerly YOUR oppressive overlords) are your closest allies. Um, not geographically speaking.
    #: Posted by pough  on  12/31  at  08:01 PM
  16. This is old news actually. Someone seems to stumble across it every few years, but I think its been publically admitted since some time in the early '90s.
    #: Posted by tim gueguen  on  12/31  at  08:39 PM
  17. Hmmm - both Lt Kizhe and I remember wearing Buster Brown shoes (unpleasantly sensible lace-up Oxfords) when we were young. That must be the Canadian equivalent of saying the Pledge of Allegiance in school.

    Happy New Year, everyone.
    #: Posted by  on  12/31  at  10:11 PM
  18. hey it's like this, eh? we converted to metric, eh? confuses the bejeezus outa them yanks. they think in miles and gallons, eh? so when they try to fill up their tanks at the petro-can, they think they're getting gallons, not litres, eh? and then they try to drive to sudbury and run outta gas around sioux lookout. ever try to find a motel there?

    and then there's the celsius thing, eh? brilliant psychological coup, eh? lotta 'mericans think the weather here is always below freezing 'cause o' that. instead of just USUALLY below freezing. who wants to invade a country where 20 degrees is considered warm, eh?

    'n' then there's our covert operatives at USA Today, eh? weather map stops at the 49th parallel so a lotta them old boys think they ain't nothin' north o' north dakota.

    and then there's all them other countries got their eyes on our territories, eh? them greenlanders would just walk across and annex baffin island. and those fisherfolk on st. pierre and miquelon still got their eye on new brunswick since the acadian expulsion.

    and don't get me started about what would happen if anybody tried to annex the tim horton's!
    #: Posted by  on  12/31  at  10:28 PM
  19. We've had a few people come chat to us about post-grad in the States. I'd been a little worried about the 'no legal rights on US soil' thing, but if Canada took charge, I'd be there like a bullet. And honest, it's not about all that lovely research money we were told is just lying around.

    Anyway, I'm already Commonwealth, which means... well, nothing really, it's not exactly the EU. But at least you'll finally have to put the 'u' back into colour.

    Also - Any chance of an open thread, PZ? I've got a lovely creationist letter to the paper here that I'd like to get some input on before I reply.
    #: Posted by  on  12/31  at  10:42 PM
  20. OMG! They are taking over! They are marrying our women (spoken as a woman married to a Canadian). Also speaking as a Buffalonian, who are half-Canadian anyway.
    #: Posted by  on  12/31  at  11:55 PM
  21. The CBC did a radio show on Brown in the 1980s as part of its "Cranks" series, along with other slightly cracked Canadian luminaries as Amor de Cosmos, (born, I think, John Smith) the 19th century premier of British Columbia. I haven't been able to dig up an archived audio file or transcript of the show, unfortunately.
    #: Posted by  on  01/01  at  12:08 AM
  22. Come to think of it, the magazine of the North Dakota Historical Society published the US's secret plan for the defense of the Northern Plains from an invasion from Canada back in the late 80s or early 90s. (These plans were of a similar vintage as the Canadian invasion plans) Basically the plan said "bag North Dakota" and pull back to defensible positions on the Missouri and Mississippi Rivers and wait to see if the rest of the country notices. Of course, out here on the prairies, our boys wouldn't have any cover to hide behind and no trees to even slow down the tanks of the ravening boreal horde.
    #: Posted by  on  01/01  at  02:24 AM
  23. My take is here.
    #: Posted by Gary Farber  on  01/01  at  05:09 AM
  24. Craig: Unfortunately youse guys are drinking the dregs of Canadian beer. Try some Creemore Springs, Upper Canada or Wellingotn County.
    #: Posted by  on  01/01  at  08:43 AM
  25. Tarnation, someone beat me to the Trolls and Canadian World Domination (I salute the generals).

    Every once in a while someone digs up "War Plan Red", the US plans for an invasion of Canada in event of a war with Britain. It's from 1935. $57 million 1935 dollars was put into building 3 airbases for the purpose of pre-emptive strikes on Canada. It includes plans to use poison gas against the civilian population. The US held it's largest peacetime military maneuvers ever in support of this plan.

    Brown was not a crank.
    #: Posted by  on  01/01  at  09:24 AM
  26. My small town, here, was one of the strategic targets of the U.S. invasion plan. That amused me no end because, back in the 20s and 30s, it would have been a tough slog eastward from the Soo!
    #: Posted by Ancarett  on  01/01  at  10:00 AM

  27. #55845: justawriter — 01/01 at 02:24 AM
    Come to think of it, the magazine of the North Dakota Historical Society published the US's secret plan for the defense of the Northern Plains from an invasion from Canada back in the late 80s or early 90s. (These plans were of a similar vintage as the Canadian invasion plans) Basically the plan said "bag North Dakota" and pull back...

    Those must be the plans drawn up before North Dakota became the world's 3rd ranking nuclear superpower.
    #: Posted by  on  01/01  at  10:01 AM
  28. One sip?

    Do you know any actual Canadians?
    #: Posted by Norwegianity  on  01/01  at  10:31 AM
  29. True, Norwegianity, the odour would indicate it's lack of potability before it hit the taste buds...

    (Camping in Pennsylvania I actually used US beer to wash my hair, rather than drink the stuff)
    #: Posted by  on  01/01  at  11:09 AM
  30. They can have Jersy!
    #: Posted by  on  01/01  at  12:57 PM
  31. It been done already.

    http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mcanadawar.html
    #: Posted by Babbler  on  01/01  at  01:47 PM
  32. The assumption in all of these "invade Canada" jokes is that Americans are rougher, tougher soldiers than the Canadians; the Germans who fought against both in WW2 would be unlikely to agree. Wehrmacht soldiers were much more afraid of facing the bloodthirsty Canadians with their reputation for taking no prisoners than the relatively more easygoing "amis'. During the Normandy invasion the Canadian forces gained ground faster in a shorter time against better quality German troops than either the British or the Americans.

    I suspect Americans are just better at bragging about their military prowess.
    #: Posted by  on  01/01  at  02:24 PM
  33. It's the beer that makes them better, isn't it?

    Speaking for myself, I make no assumptions about the one on one capabilities of the Canadian vs. American soldier. The reason it's a joke is that the US military rather grossly outnumbers Canada's, and unfortunately, I think the American response to such an event would be self-righteously brutal and uncivilized.

    It's not pride or bragging -- it's a little anxiety about the willingness of our leaders to throw our military at problems rather ruthlessly. This hypothetical invasion might be a bit like the Soviet Union vs. Finland, but the bravery of the Finns doesn't change the fact that it was an ugly and deplorable war.
    #: Posted by PZ Myers  on  01/01  at  02:41 PM
  34. Just the other day I walked past Toronto's war memorial to the volunteers of the York Rangers who died fighting off U.S. invaders during the Fenian Raids in 1866... The raids continued for thirty years (1841 - 1871).I had to go look because I had know idea what it was. Just a border raid, I guess... The memorial for the War of 1812 is down at Fort York: http://www.toronto.ca/culture/history/history-provincial-centre.htm.
    #: Posted by  on  01/01  at  03:53 PM
  35. About 1997, there was a sign in Fort Erie, "If the US army were half so competent as the US navy, you would be standing in an American fort, right now."

    OBTW, Wendy's bought Tim Horton's about ten years ago.

    fusilier, who had a pint of Frosted Frog in Louisbourg, once upon a time
    James 2:24
    #: Posted by  on  01/01  at  04:34 PM
  36. Oh, don't tease me! I grew up in Albany and swore I'd never go back. But if it became Canadian, I'd be back in an instant - my parents would be so happy to have me close by again!

    And I have this tendency to like Canadians, more so than my fellow Americans sometimes...
    #: Posted by  on  01/01  at  05:09 PM
  37. Ah, the world's longest undefended border! Unnecessary to defend it on one side and futile on the other.
    #: Posted by  on  01/01  at  05:26 PM
  38. "The assumption in all of these "invade Canada" jokes is that Americans are rougher, tougher soldiers than the Canadians;"

    Of course it isn't. Don't be ridiculous. It's because the U.S. military dwarfs the Canadian by something close to a 1000 to 1 in personnel, materiel, and arms. Mild advantage in strategic bombers, even. A couple more nukes. A million or so more people in uniform.

    Anyone who ever read anything much on WWII knows what tough bastards Canadian soldiers were. Dieppe, for god's sake. The Devil's Brigade still gets rerun on cable. And, of course, in the blogosphere, there's Bruce Rolston's Flit for some five years or so. Not to mention Canadian troops in Afghanistan for these past four years. (Awfully sorry about our hopped-up Major murdering those poor lads, by the way.)

    In the event of a (fantasy) war, the U.S. could turn Canada's cities to glass, which certainly reflects no shame on the bravery of Canadians-under-arms, or any other Canadians. (Although it doesn't help Canada's ability to defend that Canada has been basically dismantling what relatively little military it has left. Hard to fight a naval battle with no navy, for instance.)
    #: Posted by Gary Farber  on  01/01  at  09:35 PM
  39. "...who died fighting off U.S. invaders during the Fenian Raids in 1866...."

    Irish, actually, you know. This was simply the Irish against the British, (since there was no independent Canada, of course) playing out the battle for Irish independence over on our continent in a sad and pathetic, and tragic, gesture. (As if that were something new between the Irish and English.)

    However, speaking officially on behalf of the United States of America, which I am authorized to do (flashes secret decoder ring quickly, makes hypnotic gesture), I apologise.
    #: Posted by Gary Farber  on  01/01  at  09:48 PM
  40. I think the best Canadian offensive strategy is to reuse the slow, but steady, glacial sheet attack plan.

    Saws lots of leftovers from the last usage while walking along Hemlock Lake in the New York Finger Lakes region just last week.
    #: Posted by  on  01/01  at  09:59 PM
  41. Um, I was responding to the characterization of Americans vs. Canadians and the reasons given for the "invade Canada" jokes in the article...you know...the article cited?.

    What's going on here? Why do Americans love to joke about invading Canada?

    Because Americans see Canadians as goody-goodies, said Biette, the Canada Institute director. Canadians didn't rebel against the British, remaining loyal colonial subjects. They didn't have a Wild West, settling their land without the kind of theatrical gunfights that make for good movies. And they like to hector us about our misbehavior.

    "We're 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' and they're 'peace, order and good government,' " Biette said. "So if you're a wild American, you look at them and say, 'They're just a bunch of Boy Scouts.' "
    #: Posted by  on  01/01  at  10:30 PM
  42. "I think the best Canadian offensive strategy is to reuse the slow, but steady, glacial sheet attack plan."

    Our Global Warming Defense Shield is protecting America even as we speak! Bwahahahaha-- oh, sh-t.

    "Um, I was responding to the characterization of Americans vs. Canadians and the reasons given for the "invade Canada" jokes in the article...you know...the article cited?."

    Um, of a Canadian's opining of American opinion.

    However, obviously there are a hundred million or so asshole Americans who know diddly about Canada (or much else of the world), and it's terribly embarrassing, to be sure.

    In any case, okay, you were responding to the article. Which you neglected to, you know, say. I generally respond to what people say, not what they think, except when I bring my mind-reading helmet with me.

    I'm happy we're now communicating with our words, and seem to be on the same page (I hope). Now, could you please do something about Celine Dion? You can have five obnoxious American "celebrities" in trade. Make it ten.

    I've spent a few months in Canada, over the years, by the way, including to Quebec City, Montreal, Tronna, Winnipeg, Edmonton, Victoria, and Vancouver, not to mention a large number of small towns. I've been to bloody Sudbury. Very flat, Winnipeg is. I spent eight years living in Seattle, and visited friends in Vancouver constantly. Before that, Toronto a bunch of times, although it's been a couple of decades since I last was on Yonge St.

    I spent six weeks on a van trip in 1976 going from Tronna to Winnipeg, down the Trans-Canada highway. Goddamn largest mosquitos I've ever seen in my life; I've seen smaller bats. The only time I've ever seen the aurora, too.

    I'm actually rather fond of Canada. Okay? I even like chips with vinegar.
    #: Posted by Gary Farber  on  01/01  at  10:59 PM
  43. A noteworthy battle of the War of 1812 happened in my hometown:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stoney_Creek

    A numerically superior force of American invaders were ambushed in a night attack by British colonial troops, local militia and allied Mohawks. This was actually the source of my "Jebidiah Springfield" moment. I was told as a child that the British forces were able to gain surprise because 19-year-old local scout Billy Green sneaked across American lines wearing a bearskin and overheard their password, and passed it along to the British commanders. Green was lauded for this, such that a public school and major road were named for him. Many years later in grad school, I glanced at a scholarly work of history on the War and learned that Green's cousin was selling food and supplies to the American troops. He told Green the password while they were drinking in a local pub.

    Noteworthy about the Fenian Raids, they helped bolster support for Canadian Confederation the following year. Mutual defence from American invasion being one of the major concerns of the Fathers of Confederation, who were also concerned that the recently victorious Union would invade Canada in retribution for Britain's support of the Confederacy during the American Civil War.

    But just in case, I'll be in Detroit next week doing some reconnaissance. If I can ever get out of the Windsor bars.
    #: Posted by  on  01/01  at  11:23 PM
  44. Minor quibble: Canadians don't say "oot" or "aboot." The mangling of the out vowel before certain consonants is mostly an Ontario thing, I think, and even so there's no way someone used to Standard American will mistake that mangled out vowel for the boot vowel.
    #: Posted by Alon Levy  on  01/01  at  11:29 PM
  45. The vowel isn't *mangled*, it's *raised*: the tongue is higher in your mouth. And it's a feature of (some) Canadian dialects across the country, not just in Ontario.

    It does not, however, sound anything like oo, it sounds sort of like the 'e' in met followed by a 'w'. Anyways, what's the equivalent mock for the writer/rider "ai" vowel, which in some Canadians (me) is much larger a change?
    #: Posted by wolfangel  on  01/02  at  07:55 AM
  46. I've seen that tidbit about a plan to invade Canada mentioned occasionally on the Internet for almost 10 years. You can find PDFs of the original documents, too. The Defense Department plans for lots of contingencies, many of them with virtually no probability of ever occurring, just in case. Too bad other departments don't have that kind of planning capability.
    #: Posted by Martin Striz  on  01/02  at  11:40 AM
  47. False Prophet: I'm over near Dundurn, where the troops were quartered. You still in the east end?

    The Canadian raise is not a feature of "some dialects", it's pretty much universal in all Canadian dialects, and it's not confined to the "ou" dipthong. I never could understand how USians heard it as "oo", though.

    In reality, if the US invaded it would be the nastiest guerilla insurgency in history. Canadians are as familiar with US culture as we are with our own, and we are the same colour. Infiltration would be a cakewalk, not to mention all the Canadians already "behind enemy lines" in the US. As a strategy, if the US was to invade the best thing we could do is blow up our own stuff. Especially James Bay. And flatten the Alberta energy productions facilities. I'd be willing to take the hit in order to completely cripple the US.

    It's all fantasy. The US tries to take out Canada and they will end up fighting the entire Commonwealth and Europe. Which means almost all US overseas bases will be toast outside of the Pacific, as they depend entirely on the goodwill of the "hosts" for their existance, plus the fact that those are nuclear powers. Sometimes it's better to have friends than armies... it's hella cheaper.

    Of course, there's also the 101st Canadian Blackfly Regiment. Those bastards think DEET is a condiment.
    #: Posted by  on  01/02  at  11:45 AM
  48. I think it's unfair to blame Americans for not knowing lots about the rest of the world—even if we're their biggest trading partner and blah blah blah. There are more than 200 million Americans, so there's lots going on. I know a pitiful amount about other countries and I forget it quickly.

    However, if ONE MORE AMERICAN tells me that having an international border is inconvenient and we should get rid of it, I'm going to invite them to join Canada as lower Saskatchewan.
    #: Posted by  on  01/02  at  12:22 PM
  49. Side point:

    Since the microbrew explosion over the past 20 years, beer is now one of the few things the U.S. can actually be proud of.

    And really, the fact that bland Molsen and Labatts are better than crummy Budweiser and Miller was never all that strong of a point in Canada's favor to begin with.

    Tim Horton's clear superiority over Dunkin' Donuts however, is definately something to brag about.
    #: Posted by  on  01/02  at  12:29 PM
  50. Never mind "plans" ... it already happened!

    My uncle was employed by the Canadian Federal Government during WW2 in an organization called the PFRA (Prarie-Farm Rehabilitation Act). Among other things they build a lot of roads, dams and irrigation projects throughout western Canada. During the construction of the Alaska Highway he was contacted by the US Army core of engineers with a request to borrow some earth moving equipment for the project. He agreed because his instructions were to cooperate with the project but he did ask for the formal name of the organization that would be getting the equipment to keep his records straight. The first response was "Just put down 'US Army'". He said he couldn't accept such a generic title and needed something more specific. The officer making the request asked to speak to him alone and then informed him "The official title of the unit is 'The US Fifth Army of Occupation'" (I may have the number wrong.)

    So what could be worse that two neighbors planning to invade each other? How about actually doing it but nobody notices?

    And ... yep ... its true. We figure that if we can take Great Falls then the rest will just naturally collapse.
    #: Posted by  on  01/02  at  12:33 PM
  51. The US would never incorporate us...especially the current administration. Too many provinces would vote for the Democrats if they became states.
    #: Posted by  on  01/02  at  01:02 PM
  52. I don't remember hearing Canadian raising in British Columbia and Alberta, though bear in mind I was there four and a half years ago, whereas in Ontario I was yesterday.

    I don't think there's any equivalent mock for the raising of the write vowel, because it's harder to hear, at least for me. I can easily detect the raised about vowel, but if I hadn't specifically looked for a raised vowel in nice and write, I'd never have detected it.
    #: Posted by Alon Levy  on  01/03  at  11:48 AM